There’s something I’ve been struggling with a whole lot lately. I mean a LOT.
I work with a lot of atheists. That’s not the struggle part because I think they are great people and really enjoy their friendship. My struggle comes from this “New Atheist” movement. People like Richard Dawkins, Penn Jillet, and many other atheist who have “had it with religion”. It seems they find joy and satisfaction in destroying what others believe. They love to catch Christians in what they believe as falsities and inconsistencies in the Bible. They elate with joy when they tear apart someone who can’t explain every little part of the Bible that they have deemed to be hard to believe.
I’ve been trying to educate myself on both sides. I’ve been reading lots of apologetics and watching films by Richard Dawkins. I’ve read articles in Time and Wired magazines. I’ve been praying.
All that and the only thing I’ve come up with are more questions.
There is something deep inside me that is telling me Christ is the only truth. It just makes sense to me. Every time I hear or read something about new atheism I just get this deep sick feeling. It hurts and it is worrisome.
Every time I hear an atheist talk about God, I just feel the hatred and pain that they feel it seems. If you listen long enough and look deep enough into what they are saying you will see it too. There is hate. Pure hate. They may not say it or even feel it but if you pay attention you can see it. I honestly think this is one of the first times I’ve understood the true emotion of hate. It’s sick and scary and I think that’s what bothers me so much.
I’m going to end this stream of thought for now, but we will revisit this one. It’s too much to just leave.
January 2, 2007 at 11:30 am
As an English teacher, I sometimes struggled with what I knew of literature and what I knew of the Bible. I consider it to contain the message from God, but sometimes I could see the “literature” of it–the things that I would “teach” about literature–and that would make me wonder about things like myth and folk tales. One Sunday a minister, who I deeply respected, held up his Bible and said “Please stay with me on this: I do not believe in the absolute literalness of this book–I believe in the absolute TRUTH of this book.” And suddenly, there it was for me. There was no way for me to deny the “truth” of the Bible. Great literature always holds great truths for its readers. So the Bible then became, for me, the essence of the truth of God. I don’t have to prove God, becase I believe in the truth of God. I don’t know that this would help anyone else, and it really doesn’t have to, because it suddenly made perfect sense to me. It doesn’t necessarily answer theological questions, but it now grows and breathes and becomes a part of what is good and beautiful and beyond all understanding–on that day, it actually became larger and even more important in my life.
January 18, 2007 at 11:26 pm
I feel you on this one too, man. I’ve gotten into MANY discussions (read: arguments) with atheists who quote these “new atheists” like they are gods. And you are right; there is definitely a presence of hate. It’s not enough to live and let live. These people want to wipe Christianity and Jesus Christ from every facet of society. They aren’t satisfied with: “You believe what you believe, and I’ll believe what I believe.” They want you to believe what they believe (they practically demand it), and if you don’t, you are ignorant and beyond stupid.
The good news is that we know the Good News. And like you said, you just KNOW that Christ is the Truth. That is because He has revealed Himself to you. I do wonder how much of it is really dependent on us choosing God. I know He has chosen us, and I really do, for the most part, believe that we can only believe in Him if He has chosen us. I’m not a Calvinist (I still believe in free will), but I really can’t explain my belief in God. One thing I know, however, is that I can’t just CHOOSE to not believe in God. So did I really CHOOSE to believe? I know I chose to accept Christ as my Savior, but as far as the actual belief goes, I don’t think I chose that.
But you can’t (at least not with any kind of efficacy) explain this to people who don’t believe in God. And I’ve often said to people who don’t believe that I would not expect them to just, all of a sudden, believe because of something I said. I don’t think I have the power to convince anyone to believe. Only God can change the heart. My job is to be a witness for Christ. And a witness talks about what he knows, what he has seen, heard, felt, experienced, etc. We can lead people to Christ, but we can’t make them believe. And once someone has been introduced to Christ, it is up to Him and them to work out the details of the relationship, if one is to form.
But it is frustrating sometimes to know that Christ is real and not be able to just show some kind of tangible proof to give someone reason to believe.
January 19, 2007 at 12:09 am
Wow, some great comments guys. I’m just going to leave it at that. I’m really glad this topic has inspired some thought in people. I hope everyone takes it on past just talking about it and takes action, what ever that action may be.
January 22, 2007 at 2:55 pm
Hey Dude, my bro went through a very angry phase. He said that there was no God, but he wasn’t convincing. He was hurt; He was angry at God. I thought he’d be “one of those” that you pray for for like, 50 years, and then they “come back to the Lord” or whatever (the Christian lingo can bother me) at the end of their life. But he found Christ after about 5 dark years.
I’ve heard the anger. I think it comes from a place of being deeply hurt. I envision a wounded animal, ready to swipe and scratch at anything in order to protect itself. Ready to wound others if necessary to keep the tender wound from anyone — no one can touch it. I haven’t read the info you’ve been reading, I imagine it might bother me, too. But from where I sit I get it, sort of. It sucks to be in pain.
March 7, 2007 at 2:02 pm
I’m late reading this blog post. So who knows if anyone will read this comment. But, as a true atheist, I feel like I need to. I hear talk from Christians all the time about the New Athiest movement…and they all seem geunienly perplexed as to how…why now? And I’m always stunned at the blindness.
Can no Christian figure out that this is a reaction to what has gone on for ten to twenty years on the far right and within the Evangelical Christian movement? Instead, Christians only explanation seems to be, as Shiz points out, that this atheism comes from “a place of being deeply hurt”. That right there…isn’t that enough to enrage me? It should be. Telling me that the only reason I believe what I believe is because at some point I’ve been “deeply hurt”. That’s as insulting as it comes actually…and should be your first clue into this New Atheism. To be told that I believe what I believe because I’m “deeply hurt” as opposed to years of thinking and sorting out my own feelings on the subject to come to this conclusion just as you all came to your conclusion to believe in a God.
I want to point out other lines from the above posts.
Donnie says of athiests that “It’s not enough to live and let live” but goes on to say:
“The good news is that we know the Good News” insinuating all athiests just don’t know what they know.
and
“like you said, you just KNOW that Christ is the Truth”. This particularly is the place that rage and hate comes from. Atheists consider Christians stupid because you cannot “know”. You can think it, feel it etc etc…but you cannot “know” it. The atheists I know and have read never admit to “knowing” anything for certain. That’s the whole foundation of atheism is admitting you don’t know and cannot know anything for certain. But a Christian’s argument is well we just “know”. There’s no discourse from there. There’s no argument to be made with someone that just says “I know the Truth”. And the inability for atheists to argue with Christians over ideas etc without Christians falling back on well “I know” or “It’s in the bible” is where frustration and rage generate.
I’m saying to Donnie, you can’t say you’re “willing to live and let live” while saying you “know the Truth” and “I know he has chosen us” and “I know that Christ is real” because clearly you’re not willing to live and let live.
On that point…you’re not willing to live and let live when you and your ilk don’t allow people to marry whom they choose. You’re not willing to live and let live when you and your ilk decide how humanity is going to research cures for disease. You’re not willing to live and let live when you denigrate every other religion on the face of the planet. The list could go on and on…and on. That’s where the hatred comes from, your being in everyone else’s lives. And this New Atheism movement is a reaction to it. Not just because again as Shiz says we’re all just messed up and in dark places. Yeah, some things have gone too far sure, trying to remove Jesus and Christian symbols from various things have maybe gone too far…but the recognition has to be there that it’s gone too far on the Christian side too.
The rage and anger comes from arguing with Christians about simple facts like how old the earth and universe are…and seeing them teach children that a stegasaurus pulled their ancestors plows. If Christians at large don’t believe these things….they need to be proactive and get these people out of positions where they are spokespeople for their religion. You don’t think every Ted Haggard is a poster child for a New Atheist movement. You need to look closer at yourselves. Nothing I read above shows anyone questioning their own side and what maybe could have provoked this New Atheism.
The discussion/argument I’ve had that sticks in my head is sitting at a dinner table with a girl saying her father who died of cancer was an atheist. A devout Christian at the table apologized to her that he was in hell. What is that? Just one example. Is that “showing someone the way to Christ”?? If God is vengeful enough that he sends someone to hell (granting there is such a place) for not believing in him, then did I want to believe in the first place? He’s given you free will as Donnie seems to agree, but you use that to not believe…and you go to hell? Ok.
Shiz’s blog awhile back had a discussion about divorce and Christians posted that it must be the fault of atheism. And that’s not suppose to lead to some kind of hatred toward Christians? Christians disallow people from marrying whom they want, then blame athiests for the divorce rate. Concertman, you talk about the New Atheism reveling in pointing out the inconsistencies they find between Christians and the bible. Isn’t that a pretty big one, where you deny marriage for people based on religion, but allow divorce. It’s inconsistencies like this that can’t be ignored when you’re disallowing people from marrying and receiving the basic services this allows. If the Christian movement wasn’t at the forefront of disallowing certain marriages and stem cell research etc…then you wouldn’t be getting called out on inconsistencies. If you’re going to be at the forefront of these movements, shouldn’t you expect to have your beliefs criticised? How about, if you’re going to disallow by law gay marriage…then you have to make a law saying you can only marry once? How would that go over? Or as they are doing in Oregon…make a law that says you have to prove after three years of marriage your ability to pro-create as that’s the basis for marriage the Evengelical Christian movement says. I could go on and on with inconsistencies and you’ve heard them….but the point is, if you’re the leader against these things it’s inconceivable that you shouldn’t expects your beliefs to be picked apart.
March 7, 2007 at 7:17 pm
Whoa, there, Pete! I think you need your own blog. That’s a lot of paragraphs there.
Also, just a clarification, not all Christians believe what you are talking about in regards to gay marriage, divorce, the age of the earth, etc. Surely many of the most vocal Christians (also known as “those on television, ohmygoodness, please stop giving us all a bad name”) believe these things, but we are not all in agreement with those few people, nor are we in agreement with how they present what they have to say.
We’ve all had negative experiences with those who believe differently than we do, whether it be about religious beliefs or whether or not Target should be allowed to charge for parking (NO! GOSH! STOPPIT!). Blogs can be a place to vent, to express our opinions, to discuss with others in order to come to understand each other’s point of view a little bit better. I’d encourage you to start your own blog so that what you have to express can find an outlet. If you have your own blog already, I’d like to hear what you have to say, so please be a dear, Pete, and leave a URL.
March 12, 2007 at 7:10 pm
[...] As I said, there was a comment made that I need to address. This comment addresses a few points (and solidifies a few) that I made in a post called The Myth of Christian Mythology. [...]
February 6, 2008 at 10:33 am
It should come to no surprise that there are New Athiests. But they represent Athiest Philosphy no more than fundamentalist Christianity or Islam. There are decent, open, caring, peace-loving Muslims, Christians and Athiests. Let us respect each other’s beliefs without feelng the need to be right for anyone but ourself or the need to condemn others. People of religion have taught us through history that we are capable of horrific or loving behavior, in the name of God or in the name of greed. If there is a God, it is more likely to smile on an athiest’s kindness that hurtful behavior on the part of a born-again Christian. I prefer to let my sisters and brothers follow the path that guides their actions, if it involves a deity, so be it, if not that’s ok too.